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Feature: How do you solve a problem like Mejia?
After 17 years as model Americans, a Novato family's future is put on ICE

by Ronnie Cohen

Dulce Mejia, a spirited 4-year-old, flips through a costume catalog and shows her mother a princess outfit she would like for Halloween.

"If Senator Feinstein doesn't help us," her mother, Elida Perez, says, "we won't be here for Halloween. But Dulce doesn't know that."

Dulce knows her parents must drive an hour from their home in Novato to an immigration office in San Francisco three times a week. She knows an immigration official visits them once a week. She knows her mother and father must wear electronic ankle bracelets—which embarrass them so much they dare not expose their legs—so immigration officials can monitor their every move.

Dulce was little more than a year old in March 2007, when a team of armed Immigration and Customs Enforcement, or ICE, officers barged into her house early in the morning, pulled her sister and brother out of bed at gunpoint, demanded identity papers for her parents, handcuffed and shackled her father and locked him up in jail.

Like 4 million other children of unauthorized immigrants, by virtue of having been born in the U.S., Dulce and her 13-year-old sister, Helen, are American citizens. But their parents and their 18-year-old brother are not. In 1992, Elida Perez and Salvador "Sam" Mejia fled their war-torn native Guatemala in search of peace, work and a better life for their 1-year-old son, Gilbert.

Dulce is too young to understand that her parents face an Oct. 13 deportation order. She does not know that—barring an act of Congress, which, as of press time, has not happened—in a few days, they will have to leave the only life she and Helen have ever known to go to Guatemala, where they do not celebrate Halloween.

In a last-ditch effort to remain in Novato, Perez and Mejia hired an attorney who has appealed to Sen. Dianne Feinstein to sponsor a private bill that would allow them to remain in the United States. Gil Duran, Feinstein's communications director, confirmed that the family contacted the California Democrat's office but refused further comment on the matter.

Feinstein has become a leader in writing bills to help immigrants avoid deportation. The bills often fail. While pending, however, they buy unauthorized immigrant families time.

Perez, 38, and Mejia, 40, would like time to try to sell the modest Novato ranch house they bought in 2002 and at least enough time to testify at a hearing scheduled for Oct. 22 about whether Gilbert should be deported.

• • • •

SITTING IN HER sky-blue living room on her brown floral couch, Perez talks of her 11th-hour attempt to convince American officials that she should be allowed to remain in the country that is the birthplace of two of her children and her home for 17 years. Had Perez and Mejia crossed the border legally or been granted asylum or amnesty, you could say they have been model citizens, never brushing with the law even to get a traffic ticket. But they are not citizens, though they sometimes work seven days a week at physically demanding jobs, pay payroll and property taxes, carry car insurance, attend church, volunteer in their community and aspire to realize the dream of a nation built on the idea of a melting pot of immigrants.

Perez wears a bright red shirt, black slacks and black patent-leather sandals. She clearly articulates her feelings. Still, she apologizes for her English.

Though she's a licensed elementary school teacher in Guatemala, in Marin County Perez cleans houses, works as a nanny and a caregiver, never complaining. Although overqualified for the work, the naturally sunny Perez says, "We still do the job, and we do it with all our hearts."

In 2004, Perez studied to become a licensed nursing assistant. When the test called for a driver's license and a Social Security number, Perez had to quit the course.

Sam Mejia works as a carpenter for a Sausalito contractor who builds houseboats and barges. In a letter urging Feinstein to stop the family's deportation, Mejia's boss, Australian-born Ian Moody, describes him as "conscientious, diligent, dependable, a great craftsman, honest, loyal, innovative, creative and hard-working."

"The family is an excellent example of immigrants who have embraced the opportunity to be productive, law-abiding citizens, and they are assets to California and the United States of America," Moody writes. "To deport Salvador, Elida and Gilbert is, in my opinion, a travesty and is contrary to the idea of American justice, fairness, and opportunity, which are the major reasons for my own decision to immigrate to this great country."

Since Perez arrived in Marin County in 1992, she has felt anxious about her illegal status. She and Mejia needed to drive to work and to take their children to school, but they could not get driver's licenses. "I guess God really knows who we are," she says. "My friends ask, 'Do you have a driver's license?' I say, 'Yes, the one God gave me.'" Ironically, since the ICE raid, Perez and Mejia have obtained California driver's licenses.

In October 2007, a San Francisco immigration judge heard testimony that Dulce needed ongoing medical care for a chronic swallowing disorder, and Helen writes poetry and gets excellent grades in school. If their parents were deported, the judge ruled, Helen and Dulce would suffer exceptional hardship.

The judge's order began turning the wheels to give Perez and Mejia permanent resident status and allowed them to get driver's licenses. But ICE disagreed with the judge's ruling and appealed the decision to the Board of Immigration Appeals. The board found that the hardship that Dulce and Helen would suffer if their parents are deported failed to rise to a level necessary to allow them to stay.

Although they have spent nearly $30,000 on lawyers, Perez and Mejia have exhausted their legal appeals. Having Sen. Feinstein draft a private bill remains the only hope of delaying their Oct. 13 deportation.

Since ICE raided their home more than two years ago, Perez and Mejia, who was released after spending a day in jail, have had to wear electronic ankle bracelets and check in with immigration officers four times a week. They must be home between the hours of 10pm and 7am or an alarm goes off.

An ICE spokeswoman says the conditions are not meant to be punitive, rather to ensure compliance with the requirements of the immigration courts.

"They treat us like real criminals. The only fault we have is we were not born here. I sacrifice to live with this all the time," Perez says, pulling up her pant leg to reveal the monitoring bracelet, "because I like a better life for my children. I want to send them to college and give them the opportunity I didn't have. If they don't like me here and they say, 'go,' I'm going. But now I struggle for my children."

• • • •

MEJIA LEAVES TO pick up Helen at Novato High, where she is a freshman, while Perez gets Dulce ready for the rush-hour drive to and from San Francisco to prove to immigration for the third time in a week that they have not fled.

Perez and Mejia's teenage children, Gilbert and Helen, know their friends look forward to going to college far away from their homes and their parents. When Gilbert and Helen think about separating from their parents, they feel dread.

"The people who have citizenship, when they graduate from high school, they tend to want to get away from their parents," Gilbert, 18, says without a trace of an accent. "For me, it's the opposite. My parents make dinner every night, and we sit around the table and talk. If they leave, I picture myself coming home from school, and the house is empty."

Gilbert's immigration case and his parents' case are separate. Under stalled proposed federal legislation called the Development, Relief and Education for Alien Minors—or DREAM—Act, Gilbert would be one of an estimated 65,000 undocumented children who graduate from American high schools every year and would qualify for citizenship.

Gilbert graduated from Novato High School in June. Now a Santa Rosa Junior College student, he leads a church youth group, loves to play soccer and yearns for the chance to study to become an architect.

"If I was to get deported, I'd leave everything behind—college, my dreams, opportunity," he says. "It's like sending me to a different planet."

Pastor Paul Rossi of Saint Raphael Catholic Church has watched Gilbert take the initiative to mentor and guide other kids in their San Rafael church. He describes Gilbert as bright, responsible, determined and hard-working. "He's got a really good future, and these are the kinds of families we want to keep," Rossi says. "Are we really going to send people back and make them start all over again when they could be very good citizens?"

The raid and the ensuing legal saga have enraged Gilbert. "I feel like I don't even exist here, as if I was just a ghost. Right now, I'm just sick of all this. All these problems all these years have just numbed me and my family," he says.

• • • •

UNTIL MIDDLE SCHOOL, Gilbert had no idea he was one of the 8.8 million people who make up America's "mixed-status" families—families with at least one undocumented parent and one U.S. citizen child.

"I didn't really have the whole concept of legal or illegal until probably sixth grade, middle school," he says. "I thought I was just regular, like everyone else. I didn't have the concept of second-class citizen. Later on, one of the older kids told me, 'Well, if you weren't born here, you're illegal.' My parents told me not to worry about it, but I kept that in mind. It kept accumulating. I used to be scared that I don't have papers, and I'll never be able to drive."

In high school, Gilbert worried as he heard about his friends getting professional driving lessons. Without a Social Security number, he could not get a driver's permit or lessons. One day, he says, his mother just put him behind the wheel and taught him to drive. He felt he had no choice but to drive without a license.

"This is my house, right here," he says, staring at the shiny hardwood floor. "They're trying to kick me out because they can. I was sleeping in my bed, and they just pulled me out of bed. There was at least eight guys inside the house and more in the backyard. It was like what you would see in the movies. They were loaded with guns, M16s.

"They took my sister out of bed. She was younger, 11. She was scared to death, a guy with a huge shotgun taking a little girl out of her room."

Holding an iPhone and dressed in a black button-down shirt, jeans and sneakers, he stands next to an altar and a living room mantel crowded with family photos—his grandparents in Guatemala, Gilbert as a toddler soon after arriving in Marin, Gilbert graduating from Novato High in a tuxedo and bow tie, his parents, his uncles, his sisters. Red and green ribbons hang above the mantel. Are they from soccer? No, karate.

He leaves the toy-filled living room to go to his bedroom to get the ribbon he earned last year when he helped Novato High's soccer team win the North Coast championship. When he brings out the award, he flashes a smile, drawing attention to his faint moustache and his perfect teeth.

The night before ICE showed up at his house, Gilbert watched a newscast about other ICE raids in apartments in the Canal neighborhood of San Rafael and thought how lucky he was to live in a house. He figured immigration officers would contain their searches to apartments.

But ICE came to his Alameda Del Prado home looking for a man with the same name as Gilbert's uncle. Now a citizen, Gilbert's uncle was a legal resident at the time, and apparently ICE had come to the wrong place. Once the ICE team entered the home, however, they demanded identity papers that neither Gilbert's mother nor father could produce.

Gilbert's father told the officers that his children were born in the United States. What he neglected to say was that only two of them were born here. Two days after the raid, an immigration officer called Perez and confronted her about Gilbert being an unauthorized immigrant.

Gilbert has no memory of the land he left when he was 1 year old. Since his parents brought him to California, he has never left. He has not seen his grandparents, who live in Guatemala, for 17 years. He knows little of life in the country of his birth, and what he knows frightens him.

In Guatemala, he says, if a thief sees his iPhone, he might cut off his hand to take it.

Helen looks nervous when she arrives home from school and sees a stranger in her living room. Model thin, she appears taller than her 5-foot-3 inches and more mature than her 13 years. She wears skinny jeans, a brown T-shirt, rectangular glasses and black-and-white checked sneakers. A beaded cross necklace hangs down to her stomach, and her straight black hair falls below her hips.

Her parents' lawyers say Helen suffers posttraumatic stress disorder and depression as a result of the ICE raid and the pending deportation. Talking about the raid and the deportation, Helen seems at once sad and furious.

"I get mad because they took my dad. I saw him when they handcuffed him," she says, a single tear rolling down her check and her voice rising in anger. "They put him in a car like he was an animal."

Helen says she looks up to her parents, admires their tenacity in the face of adversity. "They moved here so that me and my brother could have a better future," she says, sobbing. "And they work so hard in their jobs. And they try to give us everything.

"I don't understand how people can say, 'Oh, they're taking our jobs.' Construction, housekeeping, dishwashing, cleaning, janitors—all these hard, dirty jobs is what we do. I see it with family, with friends. When they come home from work, they're dirty, tired.

"It kind of gets to me that where you were born makes such a big difference. There's just a whole bunch of happy citizens living happy lives, and then you have me."

Dulce places a blue beaded bracelet on the couch, says she's jumping into a pool and pounces. Helen starts to reprimand her but stops. "I kind of wish I was her," she says, "not to know."

Folks interested in voicing their support for the Mejia-Perez family can write to Martha Flores in Sen. Dianne Feinstein's office, One Post St., Suite 2450, San Francisco, CA, 94104, or call 415/393-0707 and 202/224-3841 (ask for immigration counsel or say you have a comment about a pending private bill). Faxed letters can be sent to 415/393-0710 and 202/228-3954. For more information about the case, call attorneys Marc Van Der Hout and Beth Feinberg at 415/981-3003.

Contact Ronnie Cohen at ronniecohen@comcast.net.

Posted by anon, a resident of the Mill Valley neighborhood, on Oct 8, 2009 at 2:39 pm

This column makes this family sound so bleeding heart.

It's fine that they like it here. It's fine that they've been living here for so long. But in all this time, why haven't the people in the family who don't hold a US citizenship tried to get their citizenship?

It shouldn't be too tough to figure out. If they're here illegally, then yes, they deserve to be deported. If they get their citizenship, then they should have the right to stay here.

Posted by ann, a resident of the Mill Valley neighborhood, on Oct 8, 2009 at 5:22 pm

Does this family pay taxes? Contribute to the community? Schools their chidren attend? Who pays for their medical?

I say since they have had 17 years to get legal,and have not done it; deport them.

Posted by anon, a resident of the Mill Valley neighborhood, on Oct 8, 2009 at 5:22 pm

Wow! How refreshing!

In the past when I've written about how illegals should be getting their citizenship I've been attacked. Maybe people are starting to realize that it's the illegal aspect of these people being here that is a huge burden on us.

It's not that we don't like these people. If they get their citizenship and then stay here honestly, they could end up being everyone's favorite neighbor.

It's when they sponge off of honest, hard working Americans that is the hardest thing to bear. This is another reason why I give ICE so much credit. People here at this site have criticized ICE before and maybe their tactics are tough, but if it takes intrusions into illegal alien's homes in order for them to get out of here, then so be it.

Posted by James O'Hare, a resident of the Marinwood neighborhood, on Oct 8, 2009 at 5:32 pm

You obviously haven't read the story; they pay their taxes. And from what it seems are probably more constructive community members than "anon" from Mill Valley. I'm going to call Feinstein's office and voice my support for saving this family of Americans.

Posted by Ann, a resident of another community, on Oct 8, 2009 at 7:49 pm

You go, James/Marinwood! I think what is being done to this family is despicable -- and those Mill Valley commenters didn't even read the article well enough to see that the Perez-Mejia family pays all their taxes (including Social Security which they wouldn't even get a chance to benefit from -- so they're actually supporting other Americans and are far from "sponging off of honest, hard working Americans"!). I hope Senator Feinstein will sponsor a bill and that this family has the opportunity to become legal residents and stay united as a family. My heart goes out to them. Thank you Ronnie Cohen for writing the article and bringing this frightful situation to our attention.

Posted by MarinResident, a resident of the Mill Valley neighborhood, on Oct 8, 2009 at 9:00 pm

What has happened to this family is an utter travesty. They own a house, pay their taxes and are model citizens. Their kids were born and grew up here.

I am calling Feinstein's office tomorrow to voice my support for them to stay in the country.

Sometimes a law has no compassion - and neither does ICE.

Posted by David, a resident of the Tiburon neighborhood, on Oct 9, 2009 at 8:52 am

Two things bothered me. One, the title, where it refers to them as "model Americans"... Model Americans don't come into the country as illegals.

and second, on page 14, where it states "the only fault we have is were not born here"... No, their fault is coming into this country illegally and expecting that is going to be "OK", when it isn't.

I agree with Ann, they've had 17 YEARS to make it right and they made a CHOICE not to.... So they get no sympathy from me.

Posted by David, a resident of the Tiburon neighborhood, on Oct 9, 2009 at 8:59 am

"How do you solve a problem like Maria/Mejia".

Oh and would someone please explain the connection to the Sound of Music for me? I honestly don't get the joke.

Posted by Michelle, a resident of the Novato neighborhood, on Oct 9, 2009 at 10:40 am

They pay their taxes, support their schools and communities. They left because they were in danger in Guatemala.

This is the only home the children know. It would be best to keep this family here.

Call Feinstien's Office please. Help this family stay.

Posted by Anya, a resident of the Santa Venetia neighborhood, on Oct 9, 2009 at 11:58 am

While yes it seems that 17 years is a long time to not pursure legal status, I understand why they never did. Once you start the process, they know that you are here and they will watch you. If you are denied, then you will be immedately deported. The legalization process is not easy, nor is it guarenteed you will be granted citizenship. With that said, I do understand that they came here illegally in the first place. Again, its not easy to obtain legal entry to the US. People throw around ideas like getting granted aslymn, however that is VERY hard. I understand why they just left their home country since it was a bad, unsafe place to raise a family. I hope that this whole family is allowed to stay.

Posted by Rebecca, a resident of another community, on Oct 9, 2009 at 12:08 pm

So tragic that any family would be faced with such circumstances - first, feeling the necessity to flee their homeland and second, the fear that they will have to leave their current home. Equally as tragic is the black and white approach so many of the above comments have taken re the situation. These are human beings and their plight is extraordinarily complicated. I don't envy the ICE or Feinstein.

I would imagine that there are significant obstacles in applying for legal status, particularly if one is coming from a country where trusting the government is so treacherous. It is very easy to sit back and judge what this family and others like them should or shouldn't have done.

Compassion seems to be on its way to extinction! Muy triste.

Posted by sandra, a resident of the Mill Valley neighborhood, on Oct 9, 2009 at 12:58 pm

Illegals cost Californians 6 BILLION dollars yearly - that is a rough estimate

Posted by felecia, a resident of the Mill Valley neighborhood, on Oct 9, 2009 at 1:14 pm

I contacted Feinsteins office and reiterated that California is on the verge of bankruptcy and illegals cost the state taxpayers 6 billion dollars a year. Please remember the legal homeless American citizens who need jobs and benefits. Tent city Sacramento?

Posted by anon, a resident of the San Rafael neighborhood, on Oct 9, 2009 at 1:19 pm

Some knowledge of history is required here.

While Guatemala certainly had a violent civil war between the right wing military and rebels the fact is that the country returned to democracy in 1985. True there was still some ongoing civil unrest but not at all to the extent prior to the return to democracy.

A full peace treaty was signed in 1996 and the rebel party then became a legal political party. There is certainly no way to know all the facts of this family and we as Americans should certainly be sympathetic to their plight but the fact is that just about anyone who is on the planet can claim to be motivated to come here by fear elsewhere. This story doesn't even try to tell us why this family was worried in the first place and what role they played in the war.

That should be the reason that we all as Americans go around the world to preach about the freedoms and liberty we enjoy here, which is why there are some many who want to come here.

I am often saddened when I see liberals preaching about the need for us to essentially open our boarders to any and all who wish to come here while they also preach that this is a bad country.

It seems appropriate to remember that Americans are not being rounded up as they try to enter Guatemala because of the freedoms enjoyed there.

People who are touched by this story should also be touched every time they see an American flag.

Posted by Charles Fuller, a resident of the Fairfax neighborhood, on Oct 9, 2009 at 1:21 pm

I just called both Feinstein's San Francisco and Washington offices and told them to ignore illegal-immigrant fear mongerers --they won't vote for Feinstein anyway--and to save the Mejia-Perez family. I urge others who share the common sense of decency toward their fellow neighbors to do the same.

Posted by MarinResident, a resident of the Mill Valley neighborhood, on Oct 10, 2009 at 7:38 am

It is sad to me that people have such strong negative reactions to fellow human beings who have done nothing to hurt them. These people fled horrific circumstances in their own country. We have no idea what that's like to live like that.

I wish that people would spend time trying to put themselves in these peoples' shoes, instead of remaining in their own little world.

A few years ago, there was a wonderful t.v. series called "30 Days" which was done by the doc. film maker Morgan Spurlock. The objective was for him (or another person) to spend 30 days in a situation totally foreign to him, completely outside his comfort zone, while sharing his insights into how other people live.

The link below is to the show he did on immigration, highlighting the experiences of a gung-ho Minuteman who experienced the desperate, horrible circumstances under which some of these immigrants live.

The Minuteman ended up being very moved by this and actually moderated his opinions...later however, he regressed, which was unfortunate.

I thought this show was moving, shocking, and made me realized how lucky we are compared to most of the world. None of us would want to be in these immigrants' shoes, and I daresay that most of us would flee our own country and try to make a better life for our families if we had to.

Web Link

Posted by anon, a resident of the San Rafael neighborhood, on Oct 10, 2009 at 12:45 pm

People do not have strong reactions AGAINST people like the one in this story, why would you say that? Nobody on this issue said any such thing. Why did you say such a vile thing?

People are concerned that almost every country on the planet has some regulation on immigration except the United States. While we have laws on the books they are essentially ignored and almost anyone can come here and then they can get public assistance now.

We simple have limited resources just like other things. The economy is bad and we need to look after ourselves, as well you know. That is just as normal as others wanting to come here and have us help them. It’s not a sin to want us to have a better life.

So it's not being AGAINST anyone it's simply a matter of limited resources, the exact same issue that many liberals talk about all day long.

We have limited resources and one way to solve the problems of the horror in other countries is to speak to that horror and to stand for the freedom we enjoy here in the United Sates.

It seems at odds when the very same people who talk about the horrors of other countries always seem to attack the country they live in which is the only place on earth that others seem to want to come to. What's up with that?

Why not change those countries? Why should we allow the huge number of immigrants from Mexico? Why not demand Mexico stop being a basket case? That country has enormous natural resources and beauty. Why does it remain a disaster?

Why do we have to be quiet in the face of such failure? How do you resolve the failure elsewhere so that the disaster ends, rather than just allowing the brave and lucky to make it here? Where are the protests against the government of Mexico by liberals?

On a more ominous note I often smile when I see the "Free Tibet" bumper stickers here in Marin. Tibet has not been freed by those bumper stickers and never will. Tibet is under occupation by the leftist government of China. China could care less about those stupid and childish bumper stickers. Why not scrape them off and do something?

Why attack the US? Why attack the citizens of the US? Why not do something that will change things instead of taking the easy way out and pretending that the world is OK.

It's not, we are.

Posted by MarinResident, a resident of the Mill Valley neighborhood, on Oct 10, 2009 at 12:58 pm

I said nothing "vile." That is your overreaction.

Also, I did not "attack" the U.S. I only said that people should try to put themselves in other's shoes. It's called EMPATHY.

We live in the best place in the world and we are better off than probably 90% of the world's population...we have NO idea what it is to live in someplace like Guatemala or some other horrible situation.

As I said previously, I daresay that most of us would flee our own country and try to make a better life for our families if we had to. That is why I can't fault people for coming here to make a better life for themselves.

Posted by anon, a resident of the San Rafael neighborhood, on Oct 10, 2009 at 4:03 pm

So why is it that the liberals don't go around IN PUBLIC and acknowledge that we are better off here than anywhere else on the planet? (Rhetorical question).

The answer is the same as why a person says that it's "sad to me that people have such strong negative reactions to fellow human beings who have done nothing to hurt them."when nobody had strong negative reactions.

People are simply expressing the EXACT same feeling as you expect, they are worrying about their lives and asking why they are required to pay for the sins of other countries when the liberals of this country are never, ever to be found standing up to oppose these despots.

Of course Americans are worrying about their lives and asking how we can solve the problems of the entire of the world, ESPECIALLY when the very liberals who seem to want us to do so are always so unwilling to stand up for America in public.

So the answer is that it makes some feel superior to others to criticize them for wanting a better life for those who are already here, just as it makes the typical liberal feel better to talk smack about the only country on earth that has actually liberated others. (I never said that was you.)

Freedom both here and abroad are dependent on America. It's odd that liberals rarely admit this obvious fact.

Free Tibet!

Posted by MarinResident, a resident of the Mill Valley neighborhood, on Oct 11, 2009 at 11:12 am

"Freedom both here and abroad are dependent on America. It's odd that liberals rarely admit this obvious fact."

"just as it makes the typical liberal feel better to talk smack about the only country on earth that has actually liberated others"

Where have I "talked smack" about the U.S.? That is a typical conservative b.s. talking point - that liberals don't care about America, and criticism about America equals talking smack, LOLOL.

Well, I don't buy into the "America - love it or leave it" attitude.

Allowing the Mejia family to stay is not going to degrade any American's way of life.

BTW - did you watch the video?

Posted by MarinResident, a resident of the Mill Valley neighborhood, on Oct 11, 2009 at 11:15 am

Forgot to add: FREE TIBET

Absolutely. As a Buddhist, the plight of the Tibetans is especially important to me. OM MANE PADME HUM.

Posted by anon, a resident of the San Rafael neighborhood, on Oct 11, 2009 at 12:38 pm

I never said that you personally talked smack about the US. I repeated that and specifically said I was not saying you personally said that.

What I said is that liberals certainly do talk smack about this country which I find incredibly hypocritical since they seem to fight so hard to bring any person from any country here at the expense of those who already live here. I think the liberals should talk and act like John F. Kennedy who spoke about paying any price and bearing any burden to advance to cause of freedom ELSEWHERE.

Seems all the progressives want to do is allow dictatorships and evil to flourish by pretending they are our fault because it's hard to advance the cause of freedom elsewhere. Then cry that we need to bring all the victims here. That is just plain stupid. Sort of like taking away all the stop signs then fixing broken cars for free. It's simply ass backwards.

Why not take some stands that will cause the dictatorships to end?

I have great respect for the peace and love taught by the Buddhist but sadly this will never result in a free Tibet.

The progressives who run China will never allow a free Tibet. I often wonder if progressives here in this country know any history at all or if they just find it easier to pretend they don't know facts that prove things they wish not to acknowledge.

I don't support the late 50's mantra of Love it or Leave it. I am suggesting that progressives stop fawning over "prgressive" regimes that's all.

Posted by MarinResident, a resident of the Mill Valley neighborhood, on Oct 11, 2009 at 2:58 pm

I'm scratching my head at your statement that progressives run China. China is run by capitalistic communists.

Again, you are equating criticism of the U.S. by liberals as talking smack, etc. The U.S. is not above criticism...no country is. And yes, I am against dictatorships that suppress their citizens. Castro is one example that comes to mind. Chavez is another.

What "progressive" regimes do you think are being fawned over?? The U.S. is not responsible for upending every so-called dictatorship (it's a relative term, you know) in the world.

Posted by anon, a resident of the San Rafael neighborhood, on Oct 11, 2009 at 5:30 pm

I'm scratching my head at your statement that China is run by capitalistic/communists. There is no such animal. It's a dictatorship by socialist that have been in power for 60 years sure they have incorporate some free market ideas but it has always been a socialist/progressive dictatorship.

Progressive regimes run by Castro and Chavez are certainly being fawned over by progressives, take a look at the long lines to see Michael Moore's recent movies where he points to Cuba as a role model.

Look at the protests by the American Progressive movement to protest the lack of free press in Cuba (Trick question, has there been such a protest?)

I am not equating criticism by progressives with anything. I am equating the total vacuum of progressives promoting the values of America anywhere, anytime with hypocrisy. It's that simple.

Big difference, but only to those who are paying attention.

The story here (if you are paying attention) is that this family fled a bad situation and they now say that ten to twenty years after the hostilities ceased they still fear their own country.

My point is very simple (if you are paying attention) and that is the solution is not here but THERE.

Posted by MarinResident, a resident of the Mill Valley neighborhood, on Oct 11, 2009 at 6:01 pm

LOLOL...you are equating progressives with socialists? Simply not true. There are plenty of progressives who do NOT support Chavez or Castro.

If YOU paid more attention, then you might realized that the world is not so black and white.

The "solution" as you call it, is there - and it can be here. I am absolutely against sending the Mejia's back. The fled here years ago, have had children born here, own a house, are productive citizens, and have made a life for themselves. To say they must be deported is an example of the black and white thinking that afflicts conservatives.

Again I ask - did you view the video I posted upthread? It might open your eyes.

Posted by anon, a resident of the Mill Valley neighborhood, on Oct 12, 2009 at 9:27 am

anon of San Rafael neighborhood, don't let MarinResident bother you.

Your points in the beginning were accurate. She has put you up against a wall because you don't agree with her statements.

MarinResident, we're all lucky to be here and we are aware of that. Those of us who were born here and are citizens by birth are thankful. There's no denying that.

What makes us angry is when people come in from other countries and continue to stay here as illegal immigrants. It doesn't matter if they pay their taxes or not.

THEY NEED TO BECOME LEGAL CITIZENS and if they don't, we should be thankful that there are organizations like ICE who do something about it.

[Portion removed due to disrespectful comment]

Posted by anon, a resident of the Mill Valley neighborhood, on Oct 12, 2009 at 1:46 pm

Dear Editor,

There was no "further portion" to my letter above. The last thing I had originally written was the following:

THEY NEED TO BECOME LEGAL CITIZENS and if they don't, we should be thankful that there are organizations like ICE who do something about it.

I kept a copy of the original letter that I wrote in this morning and it goes no further than that. You have made it look like I added a last rude word or sentence.

I resent the idea that you are making me look like the bad person here.

Please do not write that I have added a disrespectful comment when I have not.

Posted by Editor, Pacific Sun Online, a resident of the San Rafael neighborhood, on Oct 12, 2009 at 3:03 pm

Dear Anon of Mill Valley,

Your post was flagged by another user because of its content. We try to allow conversations to flow without edits. However, we do not want to see comments that are personal attacks - those directed to the poster rather than the subject matter. Spirited comments on the topic are fine as long as they don't attack the poster. The line is not always clear, we would prefer not to intervene, and we are reluctant to remove comments if they are incidental. We encourage comments from all points of view. They make for lively discussions.

In the case of this post you referred to another poster as "an extreme socialist" said "she blows a lot of hot air" and "her arguments do smack of hatred for this country." Those comments were removed because they clearly crossed the line to personal attack. The conversation between Marin Resident and Anon of San Rafael, except possibly for the LOLs and references to paying attention, while clearly deeply felt, generally managed to avoid personal attacks.

Posted by anon, a resident of the Mill Valley neighborhood, on Oct 12, 2009 at 3:28 pm

MarinResident personally attacks everyone and gets away with it every time.

You might want to monitor her more closely.

Posted by anon, a resident of the Mill Valley neighborhood, on Oct 12, 2009 at 4:11 pm

By the way, you had no problem reiterating those comments you thought were offensive in your letter above.

They are the truth.

So why didn't you just print them in the first place? You see, there was no personal attack done.

thank you -

Posted by Novato Native, a resident of the Novato neighborhood, on Oct 12, 2009 at 4:24 pm

Sadly, their story is only the tip of the "ICE"berg. So many millions of people have entered the US illegally. That was their first lawless activity. . .and would be the first of many.

People who come here illegally will break more laws. They can't fully participate in the "American Experiment" because they lack proper credentials, skills, and because they're forced (by their status) to live in the shadows. Some want to assimilate, but most become part of the growing Hispanic economy. This permits them to be hidden and/or victimized. Not good IMHO.

Many will drive without licenses and insurance and find a way to justify it. They hit/kill someone. . .and they run. They have affected the quality of our elementary schools, dumped their health and anger problems on us through crime, lack of health insurance. . . .[There are exceptions. . . but let's run a transparent immigration system. Rather than spend trillions on corporate bailouts, boost the ICE department and get it right.]

I feel sorta sorry that they feel their only choice is to violate our laws and live here. It's bad policy, however, to let them stay. They bring lots of problems . . .LOTS .. .with them. For example:

H1N1 {we don't get to check their health backgrounds.}

Prison populations (check out the booking log at the Marin County Jail) {we don't get to check their criminal backgrounds.}

They drive down wages for legal unskilled workers. There are people willing to work. . . .but not when illegals will do it for $5/hour.

The illegals pay only taxes like sales, gas tax and beer tax.

They probably don't use proper ID and file proper tax returns. Be real about this, people!!!

How did they come to own a home in Marin??? [think hard about this one before you answer. .. .]

They often engage in illegal businesses. . . .How can we regulate the health and safety of businesses that operate out of garages, cars and backyards? They're under the regulatory radar!

The Pacific Sun has made them out to be saints. I think they've been sinners.

Dig a little more into their background. . . in the interest of journalistic integrity. Mike Wallace . . .where are you?

Contact Dianne Feinstein and insist that she introduce a bill that denies US citizenship to babies born here of illegal parents. This is the law in many many nations.

These people have lived here illegally way too long. Send them back, and let them come in legally. They took cuts.

It's so. . . Un-American.

Posted by anon, a resident of the San Rafael neighborhood, on Oct 12, 2009 at 4:26 pm

I have a lot of sympathy for the family in question.

That sympathy is tempered by some of the statements they make such as "they treat my parents like animals." No such thing was ever done. They were in fact treated as persons under investigation for a crime. Putting a person who is under investigation for a crime in the back seat of a police car in handcuffs is the same treatment that many American citizens undergo. Certainly it's not enjoyable but it's not the same as treating them "like animals". There is no question that they broke the law. Still I have great sympathy and I feel that we are causing this hardship by enabling this behavior in the first place.

The crime of breaking immigration laws got two Americans landed in jail in North Korea with long hard sentences. I saw no progressives screaming that they were entitled to stay there, just a request that they be allowed to leave.

The crime of breaking immigration laws got three Americans landed in jail in Iran recently and they are still in jail there. I have seen no progressives complain at that one at all.

Sometimes it seems to me that progressives intentionally thwart common sense. Back in the 80's it was none other than Ronald Reagan who granted asylum to literally millions of illegal immigrants and the idea was that this was the end of that and we would enforce our boarders like every other country in the world.

Two things happened , the progressives got amnesia about President Reagan's act, and the enforcement of our boarders went out the window with "asylum Cities" across the US.

We simply can not accommodate every person who wants to come to the United States. It's just as I said, a matter of limited resources. Especially here in Marin where just about 100% of the citizens are anti-growth and anti-development (including myself). If not here, then where are the next 30 million immigrants to live? Detroit?

One more time the problem is not here, and so the solution is not here. We are enabling bad regimes by helping them to remove the most vocal opposition. We need to make some hard choices, it's a hard world.

So I look forward to the progressive movement begin (for the first time in history) a long and successful action to overturn the regimes that oppose free press, free travel, and free speech.

I look forward to seeing progressives join in opposition to any regime that treats women as second class citizens and does not allow it's citizens to practice any religion they choose to or no religion at all.

Wouldn't that be a nice change for the progressive movement?

Posted by anon, a resident of the Mill Valley neighborhood, on Oct 12, 2009 at 5:41 pm

Per "Anon of the San Rafael neighborhood";

The Pacific Sun has made them out to be saints.

This line is something I agree with. His second sentence was his own opinion.

The Dulce Mejia is probably a fundamentally good man on many levels, but then why didn't he immediately get his citizenship upon coming to our country? Why won't he work honestly? Why do these people use their children as pawns to live here? That's a rather low angle, don't you think?

I do wish they wouldn't be painted in such a forgiving light. If I were living that way, I would actually be embarrassed to have my picture taken with that story.

Posted by Lucas, a resident of the Tiburon neighborhood, on Oct 12, 2009 at 7:26 pm

As stated by Anon from San Rafael,

"The Pacific Sun has made them out to be saints. This line is something I agree with. His second sentence was his own opinion."

I think you borrowed the quote from another poster-Novato Native.

A lot of fine points were made by her, and by others.

These people are using their children, the press, Feinstein, and anyone that can help the situation they're in. They are desperate.

When people come to the USA illegally, they make themselves vulnerable and put their children at risk, too.

However, if they're able to sell their home and take their property with them.. . .what a fine life they will have in Guatemala.

They got caught. One down, 12,000,000 to go.

Write Feinstein and tell her to send them back.

Posted by MarinResident, a resident of the Mill Valley neighborhood, on Oct 12, 2009 at 7:46 pm

This family should be allowed to stay imo. Two of their children were born here - they are not hurting anyone, in fact they are contributing to our economy.

anon in San Rafael said:

"So I look forward to the progressive movement begin (for the first time in history) a long and successful action to overturn the regimes that oppose free press, free travel, and free speech.

I look forward to seeing progressives join in opposition to any regime that treats women as second class citizens and does not allow it's citizens to practice any religion they choose to or no religion at all."

Scratching my head at the above, because it's simply not true. I am a Liberal Progressive (a proud one!) and I am against any government that does not allow its citizens the freedoms mentioned above.

Care to elaborate?

Posted by Jiliette, a resident of the Ross neighborhood, on Oct 12, 2009 at 7:59 pm

Did we all not arrive here at some time as iigranta

and some were also illegeals

while doing geneology on my family I

found a stowaway on a ship in 1800's

from iReland

guess that makes allus descendents of

an illegal the same

if this were an Irish family under same conditions

would you turn them out?

Just wondering

Posted by Mimi, a resident of the Larkspur neighborhood, on Oct 12, 2009 at 8:06 pm

What part of "illegal" don't you understand? They broke the law, they pay the consequences.

Posted by anon, a resident of the San Rafael neighborhood, on Oct 12, 2009 at 9:07 pm

You asked if I "Care to elaborate? "

I prefer if you can point me to the progressives in America that have stood up for the right to practice the religion of choice across the globe.

Thanks.

Posted by anon, a resident of the San Rafael neighborhood, on Oct 12, 2009 at 9:09 pm

By the way as you scratch your head would you kindly tell me the countries that you feel hinder free speech, freedom to travel, freedom of the press, freedom of religion?

Could you tell me exactly what the American Progressive movement has done to change these facts?

Posted by MarinResident, a resident of the Mill Valley neighborhood, on Oct 13, 2009 at 7:03 am

"By the way as you scratch your head would you kindly tell me the countries that you feel hinder free speech, freedom to travel, freedom of the press, freedom of religion?"

Should be rather obvious, don't you think?

Let's see...I'll just direct you to the most pertinent site:

Web Link

Peruse and learn! :-)

Posted by anon, a resident of the San Rafael neighborhood, on Oct 13, 2009 at 9:01 am

Yes, that you that was extremely helpful.

From this once can ascertain the never in the history of the progressive movement in America has anyone ever done anything to advance the cause of freedom anywhere on earth just as I have been suggesting. Conservatives? Yes.

Amnesty International was founded by a Roman Catholic British citizen. Hardly an American progressive.

You couldn't even bring yourself to name one country and certainly have no examples of any American progressive doing a single thing to advance the ideals of the United States of America.

Great job! No surprise.

Posted by MarinResident, a resident of the Mill Valley neighborhood, on Oct 13, 2009 at 10:34 am

Oh my LOL - so what if Amnesty International was founded by a Brit?? BTW - there are many progressive Catholics.

I am a supporter of Amnesty International. Take a look at what they espouse...no skin off my nose if you turn your nose up at it!

Since you insist on seeing the obvious...

China, Vietnam, North Korea, Laos, Venezuela, Cuba, Honduras (recently), Uzbekistan etc. etc. etc.

"no examples of any American progressive doing a single thing to advance the ideals of the United States of America."

Oh, (yawn) b.s....research it if you care to.

Posted by anon, a resident of the Mill Valley neighborhood, on Oct 13, 2009 at 10:41 am

Jilette, your effort at pointing out "similarities" of illegals arriving back in the 1800's to illegals arriving now doesn't have too much credibility.

Everyone was arriving back then and making a fresh start for themselves. It was a different time in history. Everyone was in the same predicament and people were honest and hard working. People started businesses from scratch and worked hard. The citizen laws were also different back then.

People became naturalized citizens by merit of their hard work and contribution.

The illegals we are talking about today are night and day in that area. They are willing to work for $5 a day because they are desperate and don't set higher goals for themselves. Thereby bringing down the standard that the rest of us have set.

99.9 percent of illegals do not and will not ever learn English. Have you noticed that everywhere you go now, every business is English/Spanish? This has not been done out of consideration, it's been done out of desperation.

Latin Americans are not willing to conform to our society and we have become complacent and have allowed them to settle and do as they please. Hence, the allowance of "illegal alien" status with no ramification.

In other countries, if you try to migrate, you cannot until you have your citizenship. Why has America become so complacent? Because we allow it. This is what the honest, hard working American is fighting against.

I'm tired of going down to the bus stop to get my bus and seeing only Spanish speaking people there every day. I do not want to learn Spanish. I speak English.

I applaud ICE. If they have to go in by force to get these people and drag them out of their homes, because they haven't left like they should have then I applaud ICE. If that's what it takes.

If a Latin American person wants to come live here, great. They have my blessing. But please, just get your citizenship first. Do not sneak over the border. Do not try to live illegally. Do not use your children as pawns. Diane Feinstein does not want to have to keep bailing you people out. Why should she have to do this?

Posted by MarinResident, a resident of the Mill Valley neighborhood, on Oct 13, 2009 at 10:54 am

"99.9 percent of illegals do not and will not ever learn English."

Where did you get that number - it is simply not true...see:

Web Link

Ahhh...so you don't like "seeing only Spanish speaking people there every day." Um, okay. Better get used to it, because Spanish speaking population is growing in California. At some point, whites will be the minority! :-)

Calling Feinstein again in support of the Mefjias...

Posted by Jolly, a resident of the Greenbrae neighborhood, on Oct 13, 2009 at 11:08 am

I agree with jilette. If this were a white Anglo family I

fear there would be less of a move to deport them

and most immigrants in the 1800's did arrive legally

and were not stowaways

Posted by MarinResident, a resident of the Mill Valley neighborhood, on Oct 13, 2009 at 11:15 am

Yes, I agree Jolly. There is a lot of fear of the "brown-skinned" people in this area (and country). So sad.

Posted by anon, a resident of the Mill Valley neighborhood, on Oct 13, 2009 at 11:24 am

Jolly, a white anglo family wouldn't be in this situation.

They would not be faced with being deported, now would they?

Brilliant comparison.

And MarinResident? Since you decided to chime in even though you were definitely not the one I had been chatting with, no, I do not mind seeing only spanish speaking people at the bus stop, but it is a drag when you go to converse with someone and they don't speak the language.

There is no fear of "brown skinned" people as you so eloquently put it. You're a riot all right. You, of all people, should know not to accuse someone of something before you know all the facts.

Posted by MarinResident, a resident of the Mill Valley neighborhood, on Oct 13, 2009 at 11:57 am

"Jolly, a white anglo family wouldn't be in this situation."

Uh, you do know that there is a community of undocumented Irish in the Bay Area, right? And, undocumented Estonians, and others. They would be subject to deportation as well.

And, they look white.

Posted by anon, a resident of the Mill Valley neighborhood, on Oct 13, 2009 at 12:26 pm

Uh, MarinResident, "anglo" is English. Not Irish.

I should have stressed the "anglo" versus "white anglo".

You are annoying MarinResident.

Posted by anon, a resident of the Mill Valley neighborhood, on Oct 13, 2009 at 12:39 pm

Okay MarinResident. Ya got me. I'm probably unfamiliar with all those folks of Irish descent who happen to be white and black or whatever color they are and they aren't legal.

Maybe they, too, sponge off of us. I would think that the most they're guilty of is drinking too much. And, if that's true, then they're probably living in whatever area of SF could be considered the "skid row" area. Is that the Tenderloin? I suppose.

So yes, you have me on that one. But right now we are talking about illegal immigrants who have hopped over the border below us and who continue to live illegally, hence, not getting their citizenship. They also don't speak our language, which is a detriment.

At least Irish people can communicate. All should be getting their citizenship. That is the foundation for my argument.

Posted by MarinResident, a resident of the Mill Valley neighborhood, on Oct 13, 2009 at 12:47 pm

LOL you are splitting hairs to justify your position, but whatever.

"You are annoying MarinResident" -- should I take that as a compliment? ;-)

Posted by anon, a resident of the San Rafael neighborhood, on Oct 13, 2009 at 2:28 pm

Dear Marin Resident-

I have no problem with the founder of Amnesty International being a Brit.

The question was what has the AMERICAN PROGRESSIVE movement ever done to advance the cause of freedoms elsewhere and you have no answer to that, save a bumper sticker that says "Free Tibet".

Posted by anon, a resident of the Mill Valley neighborhood, on Oct 13, 2009 at 2:33 pm

Actually, no "hairs are being split". I don't have to justify anything.

British or Anglos who are here are 99.9 percent legal. Find me some illegal ones and even give me names if you want to.

I actually have dual citizenship because I am half British. Again, I HOLD A LEGAL CITIZENSHIP.

Now, your relentless need to stick up for people who are bringing degeneration to this country is getting old. And yes, your arguments are annoying. You actually are more like Rush Limbaugh than you probably know.

When discussions or arguments get tough for him, he resorts to flippant behavior and obnoxious jokes.

You do exactly the same thing with a liberal twist.

The only difference is that I agree with the conservative point of view more than I do the liberal point of view because it will always be more patriotic.

You feel that everyone should take care of the downtrodden. In the old days that would have been considered commendable. In this day and age, I feel it's counterproductive. Only because too many people have taken advantage of our wonderful system.

You feel the system has failed these people, but when you think about it, it's people like you who have caused this failure because you feel you have to pick up the pieces for everyone. Don't you realize that over time, the more you assist people, the less self sufficient they will be?

This is the case with illegal immigrants. MarinResident, there are ILLEGAL. If you really want to do something worthwhile, why don't you take your illegal friends by the hand and walk them into the immigration offices where they may obtain LEGAL citizenship?

Posted by MarinResident, a resident of the Mill Valley neighborhood, on Oct 13, 2009 at 3:21 pm

anon in mill valley...

Actually, I am in favor of another general amnesty, something like the conservative hero Ronald Reagan did. We need to grant legal residency to these people, so they have more opportunity to become productive members of society. My ex-husband benefited from Reagan's amnesty.

Would solve a lot of issues, that for sure.

BTW - "flippant" is a relative term. ;-)

Posted by Marie de la Puerta, a resident of the Greenbrae neighborhood, on Oct 13, 2009 at 4:04 pm

Hooray! I just read that the Mejia family's deportation has been delayed so they can attend their son's hearing. Way to go Pac Sun!

Posted by MarinResident, a resident of the Mill Valley neighborhood, on Oct 13, 2009 at 4:26 pm

Great news! Thanks for posting, Maria!

Posted by anon, a resident of the Mill Valley neighborhood, on Oct 13, 2009 at 5:21 pm

The following is a quote from an article by Ed Meese who was Reagan's Attorney General. It was written a few years ago:

Lesson of 1986

The lesson from the 1986 experience is that such an amnesty did not solve the problem. There was extensive document fraud, and the number of people applying for amnesty far exceeded projections. And there was a failure of political will to enforce new laws against employers. After a brief slowdown, illegal immigration returned to high levels and continued unabated, forming the nucleus of today’s large population of illegal aliens.

So here we are, 20 years later, having much the same debate and being offered much the same deal.

What would President Reagan do? For one thing, he would not repeat the mistakes of the past, including those of his own administration. He knew that secure borders are vital, and would now insist on meeting that priority first. He would seek to strengthen the enforcement of existing immigration laws. He would employ new tools—like biometric technology for identification, and cameras, sensors and satellites to monitor the border—that make enforcement and verification less onerous and more effective.

One idea President Reagan had at the time that we might also try improving on is to create a pilot program that would allow genuinely temporary workers to come to the United States—a reasonable program consistent with security and open to the needs and dynamics of our market economy.

And what about those already here? Today it seems to me that the fair policy, one that will not encourage further illegal immigration, is to give those here illegally the opportunity to correct their status by returning to their country of origin and getting in line with everyone else. This, along with serious enforcement and control of the illegal inflow at the border—a combination of incentives and disincentives—will significantly reduce over time our population of illegal immigrants.

Lastly, we should remember Reagan’s commitment to the idea that America must remain open and welcoming to those yearning for freedom. As a nation based on ideas, Ronald Reagan believed that that there was something unique about America and that anyone, from anywhere, could become an American. That means that while we seek to meet the challenge of illegal immigration, we must keep open the door of opportunity by preserving and enhancing our heritage of legal immigration—assuring that those who choose to come here permanently become Americans. In the end, it was his principled policy—and it should be ours—to “humanely regain control of our borders and thereby preserve the value of one of the most sacred possessions of our people: American citizenship.”

So, MarinResident, the general amnesty that you're referring to is the same one Ed Meese discusses above. They had considered it probably the only mistake Ronald Reagan ever made.

The deportation has just been delayed, it has not been canceled. So, if you all feel so strongly about this, again, maybe you could help this man and lend him a ride to the offices where he may obtain his legal citizenship.

And you're right, Ronald Reagan was a conservative hero.

Posted by MarinResident, a resident of the Mill Valley neighborhood, on Oct 13, 2009 at 8:29 pm

Reagan's general amnesty was the only good thing he did...besides spurring the fall of the USSR (which is debatable).

It is good news that the Mejias obtained a delay...maybe something will change for this poor family.

Our current immigration laws are abominable and lack compassion imo.

Posted by jUliette, a resident of the Greenbrae neighborhood, on Oct 13, 2009 at 9:13 pm

Oh. Guess what. I am an illegeal

I guess. Came here six yes ago on visitor

visa from France. Fell in love. Got married

and divorced. Own a house and still am working for

myself. Have two US born kids. sPeak

four languages and yes. Still not here legally

have me deported too

I did not use real name

Posted by the bird 409, a resident of the Inverness neighborhood, on Oct 14, 2009 at 7:25 am

yes jUliette, you need to leave too. Deport them all, where ever they came from. Cops don't let me get away with speeding (or anything else for that matter..), so why should these "others" get away with illegal activity (sneaking in to US)? Once here they suck us dry; tapping our education and medical systems, competing for housing, sucking SSI, welfare and food stamps, taking jobs that us "legal’s" need, clogging our roads, stores, and maternity wards. Our population would be declining right now if it wasn't for "immigration". Just think all you Eco-Marinites, we could reduce our "green house gasses, pollution and environmental destruction by deportation. 95% of the gangs destroying our cities here are illegal Mexicans. On any day, just check the Marin County Jail at Web Link and see all the INS holds. These are arrested illegal immigrants that have been busted for crimes. On any given day, about 1/3rd of all prisoners in jail are illegal immigrants. That means that we could reduce crime by 1/3rd by just deporting these jerks. Remember "a day without immigrants"? Lets make it forever, with just one change..... make it "a life without illegal immigrants".

Posted by MarinResident, a resident of the Mill Valley neighborhood, on Oct 14, 2009 at 7:56 am

Juliette is a productive member of our society, just like other immigrants...she is welcome to stay imo.

Our current immigration laws are abominable and lack compassion.

Posted by the bird 409, a resident of the Inverness neighborhood, on Oct 14, 2009 at 8:57 am

So, MarinResident, if I was a murderer or rapist, but at the same time I was a "productive member of our society"; (say I clean up white peoples stuff), would I be welcome to stay? OK, that might be a bit extreme, but where do you draw the line? Illegal is illegal, crime is crime. "Productive "other immigrants"? Just like the ones in jail right now??? Illegals only compete with those who are not rich, i.e.:they compete with legals that need work, a cheap education, affordable housing, etc.. Rich people from Mill Valley like the illegals, because they use them as slaves to do dirty work. [Portion removed due to disrespectful comment]

Posted by Juliette, a resident of the Greenbrae neighborhood, on Oct 14, 2009 at 9:06 am

Well Mr All American, I was married to one of you and believe me he is acting like a criminal.

Refuses to pay child support, hides income and is an all around jerk. He is one who should be deported. I pay taxes for my business, employees, buy them health insurance and have my own health care. Luckily I am able so far to travel back and forth and get new visitor visas without any problems because my kids are US born. If I did not have the good fortune to have means to do this I would be in the same situation as this poor brown skinned family.

I speak excellent English with a Princess Diana type accent and look like most other Marinites, my kids are thoroughly American although I keep them bilingual. I guess you

just want everyone who is not like you deported. I believe the family has two children born in the US they are citizens according to your constution. By the way if it was not for us French you would not even have your American. Your country would be like Canada

a British colony. Perhaps then you would have good health care and everyone would have access to it.

Posted by anon, a resident of the Mill Valley neighborhood, on Oct 14, 2009 at 9:25 am

Compassion has nothing to do with it. We've been far too "compassionite" in this country.

What's awful is people sneaking in over walls, breaking through barriers to be somewhere where they have no intention of making an honest living. Mejia is not an honest, law abiding citizen. And he's using his children as pawns.

After doing something like that, you think those same people should be granted compassion?

And yes, whether you're French, German, British, or Spanish [Portion removed due to disrespectful comment] if you want to stay here and live and work legally, you should get your citizenship. It's really that simple.

End of discussion.

Posted by the bird 409, a resident of the Inverness neighborhood, on Oct 14, 2009 at 10:44 am

ditto, and thanks anon. Juliette, to assume that the jerk you married is like everyone in America today is snub. No, I don't want everyone unlike me deported. Only the illegal ones. I do not care what language you speak, what you look like, or your sex. What does France do to people who sneak through it's borders? Oh, thats right, they give them a free education, free medical, free room and board, free money, right? NOT. Which brings up another question..... Why are you here with all these jerks like me? Love it or leave it. There is a difference between immigrants and ILLEGAL immigrants. You are illegal. Your ex is not.

Posted by the bird 409, a resident of the Inverness neighborhood, on Oct 14, 2009 at 11:20 am

wow, what a surprise..... from the IJ : Web Link

Posted by anon, a resident of the Mill Valley neighborhood, on Oct 14, 2009 at 2:44 pm

Interesting link, bird 409.

Maybe that guy will end up being deported also, after he does jail time that is. Or do they just send them out of the country first? Not familiar with that.

Also, I was thinking that I have a feeling when Ronald Reagan first put the amnesty act to work, he was getting it started for people who wanted to make a good, honest living here. Like the rest of us. I'm sure he didn't have in mind that those illegals he was assisting would turn out to be degenerates.

Anyway, as I stated above they felt the amnesty was a mistake in the end.

Posted by Mary, a resident of the Fairfax neighborhood, on Oct 14, 2009 at 4:28 pm

I think the point here is that some people do not get that the CHILDREN are born here and are American Citizens. By the way, I used to work at SSA and no illegals can get SSI nor do they get SSA or Medi cal. Most illegals go without any health care until they get sick. By the way all you good American people, if you want to deport all the people here illegally, be prepared to spend the actual cost for food like 10 dollars for lettuce. The immigrants who work at all the jobs Americans do not want to work at are not taking anything away from anyone. In fact, history shows us we are all immigrants. No one got this land without stealing it. We stole alot of it from the Indians and then proceeded to dump them onto reservations. I believe that parents of children born here should be allowed to stay here.

It appears that perhaps all these naysayers who want them deported should ask what would Jesus do? He healed the sick and fed the hungry and did not care where they came from. Whatever happened to simple common decency? In Marin there are lots of unemployed white people who when asked if they will do dishwashing in a restaurant or cleaning or similar jobs always turn them down. I know this to be true because I have volunteered with jobless people. They never want just minimum wage jobs. They all want jobs with perks and seem to be happier getting unemployment than taking a job.

If you want to deport every illegal there will be lots of Italian and Irish construction workers and plumbers and painters leaving very soon.

I think the laws should be better applied and written./

Posted by anon, a resident of the Mill Valley neighborhood, on Oct 14, 2009 at 5:43 pm

You folks who try to continually justify these illegal immigrants being here are clueless.

Of course no ILLEGAL can obtain a Social Security number. They are ILLEGAL! So what do they have to do? That's right, get their citizenship so that they may become LEGAL. Then they get their SS card.

Yes, their children are born here and yes, they are citizens. So their parents should follow suit. What they are doing is staying here and using their children as justification, which isn't fair to the children. All that results in is eventual deportation and ruining their family stucture. It's not our fault for legalizing illegals, it's the parents' fault for not getting their citizenship.

Deporting illegals will not make the cost of lettuce rise.

Yes, history shows that we are all from immigrants. Again, immigrants who came here at a different time, when laws were different. But more importantly, people still had strong work ethics back then. People were willing to work hard and start genuine businesses. These days all they are willing to do is work for pennies.

If you take a good look back at history, I think you'll find that not all Indians were saints. Indians used to brutally storm and attack many settler families without warning. They would go for children first. People make it sound like we were the brutal ones and it wasn't always that way. So throwing out Indians as an argument isn't always that convincing for me.

If you want to go back to biblical times then sure, let's go back. Biblical times were different. Now zoom ahead to the 21st century and the ways of life have changed a bit. But if you want to think in terms of what would a Christian do, then yes, let these folks stay here but please, first get your citizenship!! That's all we ask.

You guys keep dragging Irish and Italians into the argument. The article was about Mejia. Last I heard he was the one who hopped over the border illegally but still has yet to get his citizenship.

Posted by the bird 409, a resident of the Inverness neighborhood, on Oct 14, 2009 at 6:35 pm

amen, anon, and I'm not even religious..... I'm going to flap my wings...........

Posted by MarinResident, a resident of the Mill Valley neighborhood, on Oct 14, 2009 at 8:03 pm

Thanks, Mary - your comments are right on...the laws need changing. There needs to be a much easier way for the undocumented to become legal residents. For example, any child born here is an automatic citizen - citizenship should also be conferred upon the parents.

It would be a start...there needs to be more compassion built into our laws. We are talking about fellow human beings who are just trying to make a better life for themselves. That's what Jesus would do :-)

Posted by MarinResident, a resident of the Mill Valley neighborhood, on Oct 14, 2009 at 8:13 pm

Horrific and sad story of an immigrant exploited and kept hostage by her employer. Unfortunately many who come to this country hoping for a better life are often mistreated...

"Walnut Creek woman convicted of enslaving nanny"

Web Link

Posted by the bird 409, a resident of the Inverness neighborhood, on Oct 15, 2009 at 8:14 am

Marin res: Yes it is shocking, almost as bad as that white guy that kidnaped that nice little girl in the east bay...... raped her for years, etc. Then there is Ramon Salcido..... and people like George Bush. In this world there are lots of crazy people willing to do crazy things.

Posted by anon, a resident of the Mill Valley neighborhood, on Oct 15, 2009 at 10:39 am

The laws do not need to be changed.

Lazy people need to get themselves down to the immigration offices and get their citizenships.

I was reading the rules for citizenship and there are a lot of steps to take. But if people are willing to take the time to go the offices and take the tests and learn to speak english then there should be no problem.

If I went down to Mexico with the intention of living there, I would get my citizenship and learn Spanish. There are also different dialects in Mexico as there are in every part of Latin America. I would try to conform to wherever I went.

I don't see illegal immigrants doing that. Why doesn't being ILLEGAL bother most of you?

Posted by MarinResident, a resident of the Mill Valley neighborhood, on Oct 15, 2009 at 11:49 am

"Why doesn't being ILLEGAL bother most of you?"

Because it just DOESN'T. :-)

The laws need to be more humane...'nuff said!

Posted by Not So Simple, a resident of the San Rafael neighborhood, on Oct 15, 2009 at 2:19 pm

Anon, our immigration system is based on quotas. Most illegals in this country will be deported if they report themselves and apply to be legal. There have been amnesty periods from time to time but they also had standards which didn't include all illegals. So there is a reason why they don't just apply to become legal. In most cases, unless they can show their lives will be in jeopardy if they return to their home country, they don't qualify for legalization. Even when they do they sometimes have to return to their home country and wait a long time. I'm not commenting on whether they should be deported or not. But it's not a matter in most cases of just being too lazy to apply to be legal.

Posted by Denise, a resident of the San Geronimo neighborhood, on Oct 15, 2009 at 5:07 pm

The comments mentioned that tis family pays Social Security taxes. How can that be? Is the employer voluntarily using someone else's number. Because the cildren born here to undocumented people are automatically citizens, we have created an incentive to come here and have a baby so families can stay. I'm concerned about what happens when all of these folks reach rtirement age. What will they live off then?

Also, I was driving with my two sons on Bellam Avenue in San Rafael. Our can was hit on the side by a woman who was undocumneted, unlicensed and uninsured. There was $7,000 damage to my car. My son's neck bothered him for a while and since I'm self employed, I had to pay his insurance deductable toward physical therapy to the tune of about $1500. My insurance had to pay for my vehicle and I and to drive around in a rental car for a few weeks. The family in this story talks about how they drive around without licenses. What happens when someone gets seriously injured or killed as a result?

Posted by anon, a resident of the Mill Valley neighborhood, on Oct 16, 2009 at 9:21 am

I love it Denise. They decided to take these posts off the front page.

Your letter was good. It says it all, a lot of illegals are scam artists.

But, of course all of a sudden this thread isn't popular anymore.

Good letter. I had a bad brush with a car accident with an illegal also. He scammed me and I ended up having to pay to repair his wreck of a car. After the accident initially happened, he asked me if I would just pay him money and we could forget about it.

I didn't give him any money, because I don't have any! But my insurance paid for the damage and it fixed his car, an out of state car that was supposedly licensed. And my premium went up. I promptly switched insurance companies.

Most of the "illegals" are scam artists. To begin with, they are "illegal", which is illegal in itself.

If Mejia has been paying social security, then it's on a fraudulent number and that is illegal. So why isn't he in jail instead of worrying about being deported?

Exactly.

Posted by MarinResident, a resident of the Mill Valley neighborhood, on Oct 16, 2009 at 7:21 pm

In the big scheme of things, undocumented immigrants are really not such a huge issue, imo.

But those who rant, rail and demonize are basically doing what conservative politicians and fox news are bidding them to do...it's really easy to rile up their base and keep them angry by demonizing a particular group of people. Conservative pols and media want you to be angry and distracted while they cheer on the wealthy corporations who rob Americans blind, insurance companies who deny lifesaving health care, factories who move offshore and destroy whole towns due to the loss of jobs, and various other vile actions.

Think about it - is all the distraction and demonizing really worth it? The answer seems pretty obvious to me.

BTW - the ultra rich got a WHOLE LOT richer during Bush's misadministration while all the ranting and distraction was taking place! ;-)

Posted by anon, a resident of the Mill Valley neighborhood, on Oct 19, 2009 at 2:54 pm

MarinResident, when you are proven wrong and get angry you shoot back with your own rants and examples of other things that make absolutely no sense in comparison to what we're talking about.

We pointed out that Mejia has been paying ss taxes on a fraudulent ss card. That is a crime. I loved how you said undocumented immigrants are not such a "huge issue". That's what this is all about!

I think that illegal ways of life are huge issues. It's why we have jails. Mejia is lucky he's not behind bars, forget his fear of being deported.

When someone is a criminal, I don't think they should be looked upon so favorably. Criminal behavior doesn't bother you, apparently.

Posted by MarinResident, a resident of the Mill Valley neighborhood, on Oct 20, 2009 at 8:24 am

You're right, certain so-called criminal behaviors don't bother me, like the Mejias, or pot possession, for example.

It's amusing that you think I'm "shouting," or that I'm "not making sense." Projection, indeed. Sorry you're having a hard time seeing the larger picture surrounding this issue, as I stated in my earlier post.

If people would wake up to it, we could bring about real change in this country, and not focus on myopic issues like the undocumented.

Posted by anon, a resident of the Mill Valley neighborhood, on Oct 20, 2009 at 2:31 pm

I had said, "shooting", not "shouting". Meaning that you wrote back right away regarding something.

I do it also but when I did it, it pertained to the subject. When you did it, you dragged conservative politicians as what you thought were a bad example and then wealthy corporations as another example. You went off on tangents.

The undocumented may seem like a "myopic" subject to you, but actually they are a broad spectrum that becomes an enormous subject. You might remember what we've been talking about in this discussion thread.

ILLEGAL behavior. There is nothing amusing about that.